Recording and presentations: Emerging Opportunities for Energy Storage in the Iberian Peninsula
8 July 2020
Sponsor of the RE.Learn Program
Automated transcription (it may contain errors)
Unknown Speaker 0:44
Good morning, good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, depending where you’re joining from. Today we’re here to talk about emerging opportunities for energy storage in the Iberian Peninsula. And we’re going to begin in just one minute. So what I like to do is I like to to invite to invite you To use the chat on your right hand side, to introduce yourselves, introduce your company where you’re joining from today. And just we will begin very promptly in one minute. Thank you very much.
Unknown Speaker 1:46
Good morning. Good afternoon. So we’re going to begin this, this session on emerging opportunities for energy storage in the Iberian Peninsula. And as you know, this is now Portugal and Spain have become a huge market for renewables in the next decades, I’m in agreement with the Beineix or the national plans for renewable energy development and the climate ethical environment and climate. And, and one of the things that needs to be addressed in both markets is that the issue of energy storage and grid services and this is what we’re talking about here today. As you know, this has cost a lot of opportunities, a lot of people looking into this market. However, we still have some legislation to come. So we’re going to discuss the opportunities going forward with two experts in the topic. And I’d like to introduce them now. I’d like to ask them to introduce themselves, actually. So Michael, could you please unmute your microphone and introduce yourself?
Unknown Speaker 2:42
Hi, good morning. Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you, Berlin. And thank you to the IT team for for having us here. So my name is Michael Solomon. I’ve been running a company called clean horizon since I started it 11 years ago. And we have been since the start a experts consultant in energy storage, we really define ourselves as As a one stop shop consultant meaning we we will take any question as long as they related to storage
Unknown Speaker 3:07
imagine you were 11 years ago storage already you know that it does not matter battery storage right Christoph please enlighten me to ask you to introduce yourself as well
Unknown Speaker 3:18
Louis for boutique history with a been with me when for the last four years and they when who is a worldwide IPP presenting solar wind and storage and I’m delighted to be with you today.
Unknown Speaker 3:33
Thank you very much. So guys, okay, so there is a lot happening right now in the very peninsula market and a lot of opportunities. We can’t wait to to hear about your experiences and about you know a little bit more about energy storage. I’m going to ask Michael to please unmute your microphone to prepare your screen. And while Michael does that, Welcome, everyone. We usually have a very international crowd. I’m based in Madrid and Michael and Christopher They’re both in in France. But I can see there are people from everywhere you know, I can see even people from Egypt or the lona places or Albania. So welcome everyone. And I would also like to tell you that we are recording the session. So you will have access to these recordings after you can review them. Okay. You will have access to the materials and Michael and Christopher usually will put a way to communicate with them if you like to in the presentation. Okay. And just one note about questions. We will take questions after the two presentations. And please send your questions through the q&a box at the bottom and there in the toolbar at the bottom. Because if you send them by the chat, they can get lost really easily, you know, as people comment, so just make sure that you send them through the q&a so that we can actually manage them appropriately at the end. So without further ado, Miko I can see your screen perfectly. Oh, thank you.
Unknown Speaker 5:00
Very good so as long as you can see my screen see me and hear me I think we’re good to go. So once again you know very happy to be to be here virtually today we as I mentioned earlier CCleaner isn’t is a consultancy only working on storage we basically work just to explain a little bit on that market on the on the One Stop Shop concept. We are a market analyst and a technical consultants I think to my knowledge we’re the only one in the field globally to have this dual capability. As Barry mentioned we’re based in Paris at the end of the presentation of the viewer contacts but we also have a small office in Madrid from where and Madrid in Miami sorry, from where we yes almost there from where we deal with the Latin America which which we see as a as a growth market with the for for storage. But I think that the purpose today will really be to discuss a Spain and Portugal. I you know, I had a quick look at the future. People that that mentioned where their names are where they’re from. So it’s not it seems like we have people both interested in the Spanish and in the end and the Portuguese market. What I’m going to do today is I’m going to present you know we are going to speak for 10 to 15 minutes so I encourage you to ask us questions into me and Chris stuff after after this and you have our contacts anyways, once these my contacts and I’ll be happy to take on any question, when I want to say today is that I’m going to be talking about two very close very similar and yet very different countries. In one sentence, so Wake Up Now it’s 10am cet, all you should be awake as the ones listening from Asia later in the day, but I’ll say something for 30 seconds and after that you can go back to sleep and go, go take your coffee, it’s fine. One thing I want to say is, Spain is, I would say a huge future opportunity for storage in Europe, it’s not a present opportunity right now, although it’s changing super fast. Now this is close, close that portugal is a small opportunity. But it’s a small opportunity for absolutely this very month, because we have a tender open right now for digital storage. So depending on whether you’re here for the long run, you should listen to the next five minutes. If you’re here for the short run, you should go take your coffee now and come back in five minutes when I talk about Portugal. All right, am I helping you guys manage your time? It’s fine. That’s that. All right. So So first thing
Unknown Speaker 7:31
day for the whole duration.
Unknown Speaker 7:33
You know, I mean, you know, I know, we have a shorter attention span because of the COVID crisis. And we are those screens all day long. So I’m just going to, you know, narrow it down to the five minute block really, after, okay, so, you know, I don’t want to bore people with details and high level numbers on the Spanish market. I’m just going to say, I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna give you that slide. Just to remind you that if you look at Spain today from you know, You know satellite there the only looks at storage you won’t see much. You won’t see much we have a database whereby we track it’s called chess we track every megawatt level storage projects in the world. We track we have about 1300 of those projects in the world there’s there’s barely a dozen in Spain and by the way, all on that slide, but that’s that doesn’t matter the picture that’s fine. Doesn’t matter. What matters is what I wrote in red. The rest is all bullshit. What matters is what’s in red. Basically, Spain is the only country in Europe that has a national target as a national target. specifically focusing on storage and excluding pub hydro. So that country in its national energy and climate plan which is essentially a document every nation has to have up nation has to prepare
Unknown Speaker 8:48
and which essentially sets its its its renewable targets.
Unknown Speaker 8:53
with the goal to be carbon neutral by 2050, whatever but so their target there in in that document is it Supposed to be redone every year and that document for Spain states that Spain is looking to have a target of 2.5 gigawatt of storage in the country by 2030. And again, that excludes hydro. So it focuses on batteries, CSP and hydrogen, and no other country in Europe as such as this kind of quantities target. So what that tells you is that it’s, you know, something’s going to happen. Why? Because as every, as any stakeholder involved in the Spanish market knows, it’s not possible to run a business case for storage in Spain. Right now. What I’ll show as in a nutshell, I apologize it there’s a lot of words. So my recommendation is don’t read, listen, and you can get this afterwards. But that’s, I would say, are the epitome of our market research on Spain in one slide. So basically, the only thing that you can do with Spain with with a battery now I’m just focused on battery in Spain to make money is a secondary reserved, it’s nice it pays well, except that it’s not authorized for you to do to do it to go on this market with a storage asset. So even though you can make, as I mentioned here 100 north of 100,000 euros per megawatt per year, which is more than enough to to have a nice IRR. You’re not allowed, there’s no, there’s no real rule for you to go on this market. As of today, it will change in the future in the context of the European program called peak. So who’s basically dedicated to harmonizing secondary reserves all across Europe, and by the way, which will be delayed in Spain, as opposed to other countries but still, well, there’s I guess there’s a, it shows that this country delivers inherent value to secondary reserve for storage, although, unfortunately, it’s not. It’s not possible to do it today. You can do it you can pay the consultants please, please pay the consultants just just pay the consultants but you know what, if you really Don’t want to do that. Here’s the answer that any decent want to give you is that if you go and try to do some arbitrage on the wholesale market, I’m not looking at any any more about the, about the salaries or market you’ll never have a spread that that justifies investing in a battery as of today. So those numbers are essentially the average. It’s the it’s the average day head price curve for for spending 49 minutes, we took the average for each hour of the day, the average buys during the year, I hope you follow what I’m saying. And basically that’s paired here between 53 and 45 euros is way too low to justify buying a battery.
Unknown Speaker 11:42
Now, the other thing I want to say on Spain, I just mentioned earlier in my nice color graph, that Well, the only thing that seems to make sense is Secretary reserve. You know, my my endless and I asked him he’s a young guy so I asked him to make a research there and He scratched his head and try to get some data without paying databases. So he put that together. What this we’re talking about Spain. So bear with me with a minute. And I’ll tell you what this means. This is an our assessment, very rough, super rough assessment of the spark spread of a CCGT of a gas turbine in. In Spain. I’m not so sure we got the right, the right price for the gas there, but it’s fine. But what this tells you is every time a gas turbine delivers produces a megawatt hour of energy, their mark their gross margin, which is called a spark spread is 18.6. Let’s call it 18 euros per megawatt hour. So why does that matter to us? matters to us because, and I think Christopher mentioned it earlier later in in his presentation, as opposed to a lot of other countries in the world and in Europe, Spain and Portugal, by the way, don’t have a market for for for frequency regulation, also sometimes called FCR in Europe for frequency control. The way this works is, it’s a It’s mandatory, it’s an obligation that is set upon the generators to deliver that that service, which means in other words, that when you’re generating if you have a generating asset, like a CCGT, a gas plant, you’re not able to, to use it 100% of its capacity. And so with our small computation there, what we’re saying is every time for every hour of the year, we’re not using all of my megawatts. So if I if I need to save to set one megawatt aside for for primary reserve, my my opportunity cost the amount of energy that I’m near amount of money, I’m not making his the spikes better or not generating and that’s $18 18 euros per megawatt per hour. If you multiply this by all of the hours in the year, again, you’re north of 100,000 euro per megawatt per year, we should be enough, largely enough to pay for a battery. Now, it’s unclear to be quite frank, if there’s an actual potential for an interview. an owner to go to, to, to somebody who owns a thermal plant and offer that service. But it doesn’t really matter at this stage we’ll discuss in two minutes that the market is opening up. What this tells us is this price levels, the opportunity costs are high enough to meet to tell us that there is some value that storage could bring to the to the market, as a matter of fact, so I mentioned earlier that, okay, Spain ads that target, very, very aggressive target. It’s not possible to make a business case today. But clearly, both if you look at the way the money that is being dispersed by this country for Secretary reserve, and I would say the hidden costs of frequency regulation. We understand there’s there’s some some value there. And we also understand that it’s not possible to doesn’t seem possible to effectively address them because the regulations don’t follow. we’re not the only ones to know that the government of Spain knows that and as Matter of fact, the government issued a public consultation that just closed just after the end of the the state of emergency health emergency. There’s a couple of weeks ago, we as consultants responded to this consultation. And the purpose of this consultation was really to ask stakeholders in the Spanish market, you know, about what, what should be done to foster energy storage markets within this country. But there’s other there’s other small data points there that are written in the slides that tell you that I guess the market is aware of that. Another key point which come up came up just last week after I finished my slides today. So to be quite frank, I have not had the time to fully analyze it. There’s a new new royal decree that was issued. I think it was just at the end of June really just just about a week ago
Unknown Speaker 15:57
providing some insights. On on, on on specifically on storage and on how how the business model for storage should be should want to start should start looking like. So as of today, July 8 2020. If you go to your favorite banker and ask him or her for, for a thorough loan to build a storage project in Spain, clearly you won’t be able to show to this person, an actual mechanism or market mechanism that justifies him that justify that you get that loan. Okay, so as of really today, difficult to build this business case, but because of the value that I’ve mentioned, and also because we understand the government has this target, and he’s right now changing the rules, this is going to change, I don’t think I can make it make it any clearer. So you’re looking at here, potentially the biggest market for storage in Europe, and which is right now changing. That was for the future. And as promised, I’m going to talk about the present. The present is now in Portugal. The present is in our Portugal. Before I get into too much, you know, before I get into, you know the detail of what’s happening the President, I just want to say one thing is that the I would say the overall conclusion I had on spending, remember that that table that I show with, you know, two markets in orange, one in yellow and one in green where I could be doing the same thing for for Portugal. Let’s say simple reason is the two markets are coupled, very well coupled By the way, and so I would probably be what I’m showing here, the graph I’m showing here is as the capacity payment that I get, if I’m if I’m making what’s called a double bid, I’m happy to explain the questions but let’s see if I if I’m offering a second reserve capacity to to this to this country for for the whole year of 2019. Again, as you’ll see it will be paid 16 euro per megawatt per hour again, multiply this by the number of hours in the year, you’re almost in the same range as what you had in Spain, which was 140,000 euro per megawatt per year. Now, again, same as in, you know, same as in Spain, the best thing we can say as consultants is to be participating as of today, we’re in Portugal with a storage asset in the second reserve is unclear. You know, when I wrote the rules are fuzzy, which means it’s unclear also, but same. So as in Spain, it is going to change because of the Picasa project that is specifically aiming at integrating the way second reserve is operated in Europe with a target of 22, which has been postponed to 2023 and 2024 in Portugal. So the value is there. The rules are not there, but it’s going to change. So why the hell am I talking about a short term opportunity? Wait for a minute. The one thing what I’m getting at is, even though it’s a small country, I mean in terms of electricity, that overall consumption for Portugal and Think 2019 was just just about 50. Zero terawatt hour. So it’s not the same, not the same way to Spain really. Nevertheless, this country is pretty much aiming at, you know, multiplying by five, its amount of PV capacity before the end of the decade. As a matter of fact, last year, a lot of you may know that, that Portugal issued an auction for PV were known for more than one gigawatt of storage was was awarded 2000 developers and the cheapest and it was a very cheap number found the cheapest one of those developers for their cheapest project. Won won the tender with less than 15 euro per megawatt hour. Good for the Portuguese not so good for them, but whatever I guess they’re going into they know what they do. The reason I’m talking about short term is among their renew their PV target this country is issuing right now. an auction For now, 700 megawatt of PV with a storage option, which I will discuss in a minute. This is the high. This is the high level in this slide, which you can make a screenshot of and also download after the discussion. I remind we say the high level bullet points for the standard. The sticking point is the deadline for for application is this month. Meaning you don’t have to, to submit your full application by the end of the month. But you need to specify to make some very specific critical choices before the end of the month and I’ll tell you what those choices are in this tender Now bear with me for a minute. I have two more slides to show and I want to explain the tender and why it should be considered. It may well be extremely relevant to focus on storage for this tender.
Unknown Speaker 20:56
The way this is organized is it’s a PD tender with a storage option. So we as storage experts know that a PVC tender with a storage option is usually not serious on storage, it’s usually mean meaning that whoever is creating the tender just wants to get a free market information on storage and will never buy because in the end, when they receive the options, they will realize it’s more expensive and then they won’t buy and they will just stick to, you know, the PV only options, those of you that have been exposed to the US market. We know that for a fact I mean, you just don’t waste time on PV options. Except on that one. The way the center is made is either up with PV only, that’s bidding bidding options one and two, where essentially you just have to choose how you how you’re going to be assessed either you. You provide them with a PPA, that’s option one. And you provide them with some kind of a discount to a to a to a specific tariff target. They’re putting their spending on themselves, or number two, not in seconds. a way for you to build up is know you can bid and you can go on the market whose prices are projected to rise. But if you go on the market, you have to provide a fee an annual fee. to, to the to the, to the to the system is essentially to the electricity system. third option is you can build with storage, in which case, what you have with the way this works is they’ll give you an annual payment per megawatt connected and ended also, they also give you a strike price when you and they’ll let you sell your energy on the market with a strike price meaning when the price of energy is higher than the strike price is you need to pay them The difference is the rational they have for storage with which is not the same as for PV only is they just want to use a PV plus storage to avoid to avoid very high peak prices. Now, how are they going to compare those two options? Is there going to assess the NPV the net present You have all of the options, all of those, the all of those bids, whatever the option, the bidding option chosen. And they’re going to assess the NPV of this option from the point of view of the NFT system. And they will select the ones that provide the, I guess the lowest NPV. So the most savings from the electricity system. They’re pretty transparent on how they make the computation that there’s a there’s a way there’s a small calculator on their website. So it’s pretty open. And the good news is, they’re not just comparing capex and cost of energy, in which case people storage loses by construction, where they’re computing how much you’re saving their system. And they’re giving you the rules on how to assess that. So we think it’s quite interesting for storage. And we’re and so now against the devil will be in the detail. The difficulty will be if you want to, as a beginner, you’re going to have to assess those three options and assess which one delivers the slowest and the lowest MP. To assess the third option is is hard work. I mean, we we have been working in developing a lot of the optimization codes to allow our clients really to to assess what’s the what’s the what’s the lowest NPV they can offer to the two they can offer the electric system of Portugal. And then so that they can compare with the PV on the options. There’s a lot of refined details I mentioned earlier that secondary reserve is an interesting pocket of value. It’s not open as of today, but it doesn’t matter because those projects will come will have to be connected in 2024. And if Remember, if you remember what I just said about the big castle project, which should be operational importable for 2023 or 24, then you understand that you may be right in the money and that you need to be thinking really out of the box on on how that storage as it is going to monetize itself on this market. So I just want I don’t want to you increase the amount of complexity there. But if you take a step back and remember what I said earlier in this presentation Well, welcome to the Iberian Peninsula, where depending on where you want, either what who you are and what you want, you can either start doing business friggin yesterday, because you have until the end of the month to bid. And by the way, it is a serious tender with 700 megawatts of PV and most likely a lot of storage. And while you’re at it, if you invest in this geography, bear in mind that just next door, there is this this this awakening behemoth called Spain, which is probably going to become the hottest market for energy storage in the, I don’t know, one or two years to come to be defined. So I’m just going to, you know, shy away now and maybe Shut up. Is that good? Should I do that?
Unknown Speaker 25:55
Thank you very much, Michael. You’re also really funny. I think we’re all like loving him. resist. Yeah, thank you very much. All right. All right, guys. It was a very like Michael makes it entertaining, but it is very detailed presentation. So don’t worry, you’ll have access to the materials, we will ask Michael to send them our way. And I can see there is a few questions already popping up. So we’ll deal with those after Christmas. So Christopher, Please, could you share your screen? Yes, sure. Go for it. I also have some questions for you guys. And and I think Michael was hit right on the on the nail the nail on the head is that really like, we’re on the brink of a massive market here. But just on the brink, you know, so how when, you know, like, it kind of becomes something more concrete. It still remains to be seen. So, yes, we can hear you and we can see your presentation now. So perfect. You’re ready to go.
Unknown Speaker 26:55
Good. Good. Thank you very much. So just as a quick introduction, so the what they what they propose to Michael, when we discuss Scribner a few days ago was as to the new when hasn’t got any storage just sitting up together and for the wisdom that Michael presented before and I would be more than happy to, to explain more in detail. And I would, I would say towards the booth near where we are what we do worldwide I think that storage is key for us. So and we’ll be more than happy to to explain the main reason for and the main driver of our business model for storage. And then I will I will explain why we believe that portugal is interesting market and I will give you example. But what we do, we’re worldwide. And as a as a as a my Colombian said I’m happy to respond to 20 question at the end. So very quickly about near when we’re an IPP in the renewable energy sector. We’re working with signals which are solar wind in storage. We are prisoned 14 countries in the world. And we have more than 200 countries worldwide. We have seven people in Lisbon.
Unknown Speaker 28:12
And portugal is an important country for us.
Unknown Speaker 28:16
First, first country internationally if France and we opened your face in 2010, and just few figures today near when has two gigawatt of solar assets in consumption operation worldwide, almost one gigawatt of wind and 185 megawatts of storage, I think which makes us one of the leader in storage worldwide. And you want to build Portugal so as I said, we’re presenting Portugal since 2010. We have a portfolio of operating assets of 24 Media what operating system 2014 actually, we, we participated to the auction, which was I think, in 2012 and 2013, which was a based on history for So, and I think that at that time 10 years ago, or nine years ago, the tariff was almost 10 times sorry if it wasn’t the last auction, which is a recording choice in Canada. So price, sort of decreasing. And in the during the last time during 2019. We’ve been awarded 450 megawatts for 15 years and we have choosen at that time, is a fixed price. So there were three, three, as Michael said, this year that we passivity that is our only two, and we decided to go for the fixed price which is a revenue in Europe and we get paid by the by the government. We will be participating to the Ocean City again, we we have a strong pipeline in particular and Well in we are, you know, looking forward in, in doing storage in Portugal. So we are still assisting in we had several discussion with Michael caribou that still assessing what is the best option for us to go? I think it’s not straightforward for sure. And I think there are different different thing to consider there is a sizing of the battery which seems to be at least 20% of the size of the chrome
Unknown Speaker 30:34
Unknown Speaker 30:43
Unknown Speaker 30:54
Christ have you had a bad patch there? Can you hear us and we will
Unknown Speaker 31:02
Yeah, yeah, you’re right we cannot hear you crystal let’s see. Okay, maybe now can you hear us? Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? We can yes.
Unknown Speaker 31:14
Okay when when when when should they start again? Where should they start again
Unknown Speaker 31:20
went off for a while so don’t worry just keep going Michael Did you yeah they’re they’re still there why consider storage?
Unknown Speaker 31:28
Okay this is good. This is good.
Unknown Speaker 31:30
Did you hear good put together with a yes or no when you put together
Unknown Speaker 31:34
Yes yes we heard that we heard 50 megawatt and and you heard that we heard that what you said about you know, it being not clear what you what should be the bidding option and we by the way while you were talking we also received questions on this. We’ll deal with them later. So you’re that that part we got?
Unknown Speaker 31:54
Cool. Okay, good. Sorry about that.
Unknown Speaker 31:58
So why Way, are we considering storage? The issue that we are we we have found was only available is intermittency ease the fact that we need to to provide more security to Z 22 electrical grid due to intermittency. And I think that storage can also avoid new investment to the grid. Because by adding storage to the grid can enhance the grade and and therefore, enhance the capacity that can be delivered on the grid by by increasing let’s say the number of media whatever injected full time and so we are the main usage as today and the main services that no one is delivering with batteries is the firstly read services and bye being present to to such market as FCM that was mentioned by you by Mikhail earlier today. So we that is the main use of our batteries, grid services we’re doing also an assessing load shifting, we believe that one of the main storage uses loot shifting, and then energy arbitrage is for sure something that we’re looking at the nodes of geography where we’re present. And nevertheless, first day, energy arbitrage is not the huge opportunity in all the countries. So I think there was a good case to explain them again in Spain. So we believe that the national stage would provide more opportunity in the future with more vulnerable, but that’s today. Let’s say that the main driver of business for that for battery is quitters. And just very quickly to go through through our asset worldwide So as today we have six asset in operation. We have two three in Australia actually. And one which has been sold with solar and two with with wind one in France
Unknown Speaker 34:18
Unknown Speaker 34:20
then one in email separator in some kind of medica where we also doing a grid services. And I’m going to talk very quickly about ons data. I am sure that everybody knows about this one. It’s a it’s a project that has been installed by Tesla when he’s the owner in Tesla is EPC provider and has been providing the battery for for on sale for reserve. And I think that the what is a What is interesting about the special feature of the projector is that we are receiving an income from the South Korean government as part of the risk prediction protocol, and I think that that’s the main reason why these these battery has been has been promoted basis also strangle Venmo because of the intermittency issue is available. And we are also bidding on the energy market for several ad frequency control market which which are part of them our frequency regulation, what is interesting in terms of impact of aanzien power reserve in Australia and in the South Australia that during the first year, it has provided the saving to the to the state of around 40 million Australian dollar, which is around 75% of the frequency regulation costs. So I think that that that’s really high numbers and that is one of the reasons We have decided to to increase the size of the battery that has been done with the cooperation of the social trend government. And, and this is also addressing another issue, but I won’t go too much into detail of it, but just to mention it which is about inertia that that only huge battery can provide. And then I will I will just briefly mention, you know, the last, less development in Europe. So less development in Europe is, I believe one of the largest battery in Europe, actually, but soldiers who you need in the Nordics, it’s in the capital reserve in finance, the statue is currently in construction. We hope to have it to protein by q1 2021 It’s a certain media what certain media whatever, and so you use of battery Wi Fi considerations so in the Nordics air is a market for frequency regulation. And I’m not saying that we won’t use this battery for other services or for arbitrage later on, because today, it is the main use of this battery. And and I think that fingrid, who is a grid operator in Finland has been helping us to develop the battery because of the of the services providers agreed, and because of the impact it will have in for renewable in the country by helping them to to deal with the intermittency of renewable sector. So I think that’s, that’s mostly what I wanted to say. I am really happy to to answer to any question I’ve been asked to be quite sure.
Unknown Speaker 37:43
Then am I allowed to say one thing?
Unknown Speaker 37:45
Oh, absolutely. Yes. Shall we take this off the screen for now, so that we can see you better? Okay, go ahead, Michael.
Unknown Speaker 37:52
Okay. So I want to just I know we have dozens of people listening but I think What Christophe mentioned is I’m going to paraphrase what he did, it’s extremely important. So you have there that on your screen senior sitting there, clearly one of the leading persons or one of the, if not the leading IPP, globally, in terms of storage, clearly. And what this guy is telling you is that the way he does storage is when he is in a country, and he serves the grid. So he needs initial data in Australia. I just showed that in Finland, he delivers the services to the grid that storage is the best at delivering, which is frequency regulation. He also mentioned inertia, which, which is yet yet another topic, but essentially, that’s what he’s doing it but that guy is also saying and by the way, I have plans in Portugal and yes, as an option, of course, I’m considering it. So the challenge that that this guy is facing. Sorry, Chris, if I mentioning you at this guy the challenge that Chris has is trying to make a generic that this guy is facing is that here’s a country where the usual way to do storage business is not on the map yet. Okay. And yet, there’s an open tender and talking about I’m talking about Portugal here. There’s an open tender now, that is specifically asking people like him and others maybe like you to to, you know, make a strategic decision on how to address the market. So
Unknown Speaker 39:36
you’re not alone. The
Unknown Speaker 39:40
the challenge that the opportunity slash challenge that Portugal that the brand the Portuguese operator is, is asking the storage community to solve is not a trivial one. It’s something I guess very specific to this country. But as I try to mention in my Talk there is there you can measure that this country has hidden that there is intrinsic value that storage could generate to this country’s because a lot of the, the way it’s operating its reserve at least is costly. So what so the reason we had a discussion there but Australia in Finland is just to tell you that in as a mirror example, the usual way to do it in in the leading markets is going to have to be adapted to Portugal, in Morocco, and I think we got some questions there.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai