Recording and presentations: Developing successful solar PV projects in Italy
23 June 2020
Automated transcription (it may contain errors)
Belén Gallego 0:31
Good morning everyone. I just wanted to let you know that we are going to wait two more minutes to allow people to come into the room. However you are in the right place we are talking about developing successful solar PV projects in Italy. So please just wait for us two minutes. And in those two minutes, what I would do is I’d invite you to use the chat box on the right hand side tag all attendees So we can all read it and introduce yourself your company and also tell us where you are joining from today. And just as an introduction, my name is belling Diego. I am from Ada insights. And I’m going to be your moderator today. And in just less than two minutes, I will introduce you to the experts that are going to be talking to us about developing PV predict in Italy today. Thank you
Well, good morning, ladies and gentlemen, welcome everyone to this online session about developing successful solar PV projects in Italy, in Italy as well as other European markets has, as you know, a few months ago a few couple of years ago, candlestick cycled back into into developing a lot of renewables. And we’re really glad to see follow in this direction. And there is a lot of actually gigawatts expected in the next few years. And we’re going to hear from three experts on this market today. And where are the opportunities and where do they lay? So I’d like to ask you guys to introduce yourselves. So Andrea, Please, could you unmute yourself and introduce yourself?
Unknown Speaker 3:28
Yep. Can you hear me?
Unknown Speaker 3:29
Unknown Speaker 3:30
good. Hi, everyone. And yeah, I’m on record alto and I’m responsible for Italy or not Europa at at a renovables. I’ve been working in installer for nine years now. I’ve been focused mainly on technical due diligence services in Italy, UK and Australia. What about eta renovables? eta is a engineering company and Siemens 2005 provides advisory and engineering services. We are in three continents with the five offices and we we worked in the for total of 80 gigawatts in the rest project so far.
Belén Gallego 4:19
Excellent. Thank you, Andrea. Full disclosure, he is one of my colleagues on the engineering arm. Next, I’d like to ask Karla, could you please introduce yourself?
Unknown Speaker 4:29
Hi, good morning to everybody. And thanks for having invited me to join these webinar. I am the global deputy business unit leader for the energy infrastructure practice at Arica which is a USB is the West Coast based international law firm and my main focus E’s renewable it’s mainly Europe and of course, immediately So solar and wind are the main technologies, where we focus our efforts on the legal side by covering project development, m&a, and finance.
Belén Gallego 5:14
Excellent. Thank you very much Carlo and most certainly not least Eleonora always glad to see women in these things. You know, we’re read, Please, could you introduce yourself?
Unknown Speaker 5:25
Hello, good morning. Thank you for this invitation to be Lana hair Thema nada sizer. I’m the head of business development for really for anagram power, as you as you probably know, is the first operator over the word the inner renewable with the fourth etc 46 gigawatts of capacity storage capacity, something like last more than 1200 sp Lancer and focus on me Naranjo technologies Thank you for the invitation. Again,
Belén Gallego 6:02
thank you very much for being here with us today. So you’ve heard them have three top experts. Today we’re going to talk about the opportunities in the Italian market. So first, I’d like to invite Andre, who’s going to be the first one, to give a presentation to prepare your screen and drain your mic and everything. In was unreal as that I’ll just let me tell you a bit about how we’re going to organize this today. So essentially, we’re going to have three presentations from each of them. And then we’re going to take questions from you guys in the audience. So to send your questions, do not use the chat, we’ll use those just to talk informally use the q&a box at the bottom on your on your toolbar because that allows us to sort the questions out much better. So just send them through the q&a box and we will take them at the very end. Okay. Just a reminder for everyone. We are recording this session and we will send you a link to the recordings and also the materials that you’re seeing on screen today. So don’t worried you will have access to that. And I just like once again to welcome everyone I see there are people from everywhere to learn here about tele market. So welcome, Andrea, please unmute your microphone and go for it.
Unknown Speaker 7:13
Okay, great. Thanks Berlin again for the introduction in today’s presentation and gonna talk about how the risk to development of large scale project in in Italian so the
Belén Gallego 7:33
use the cursor keys, the little arrows, yeah. All right.
Unknown Speaker 7:37
So yeah, I really present myself and the company so we can go straight to the to the topic of this presentation. Always the situation in Italy. So the Pontiac so the the name that you can see on the top of the slide this stands for integrated the National Energy and Climate plan. These plans is prepared by the government and set the ambitious goal of 30 gigawatts of solar to be installed by 2030. So, in order to achieve this kind of amazing number for the next decade, it is expected that we have to build something like one point Eagle that barrier with large scale PV plants all mostly in agricultural lands. So, important note here for the foreign attendee, we will have PV in there who therapy incentives are not allowed by low so this target must be achieved in a subsidy free regime. However, this is not, I think, in my opinion, the shoe for to get in the target provided by the neck. But the main hopes the goal so far is the application process so a process can last between They’re 18 and 2424 months, and there are continuous conflicts between authorities like a national region and province. So lots of conflicts between different labs of our planning authorities. That’s why that’s why it’s legit geologically understood in Italy that unblocking these procedures will be a crucial step to move ahead with this amazing target of 1.5 gigabit barrier of course, in so in this context, I will show you how the project design phase must be of help instead of extend and complicate the permitting procedures and updated the end feasible. design will prevent from material amendments, which can be risky for the project and can extend the expected timeline of the Before around 1824 months. So next slide I’m gonna talk about initially how we can select a site and then I gave give you can give you some insights around the grid connection. And finally, I’ll give you some information with regards of the of the project design during early stage of the development. So, in the site selection, the first the most important part is without any doubt the environmental constraint constraints analysis. So, this is the key activity for the selection of the project for the project area. They RM must be free from any constraints. So there is a National Guideline which identifies not suitable zones for a rest project. This guideline has been proposed by almost all the regions in the form a web GIS system here we can see a picture of web GIS of Abuja region. So we Have the green, light blue, brown all of them are the area that for different weeds reasons must be avoided by the project. So I was like to say that this is a part of kind of powerful tool and is very helpful to identify quite quickly, good sites. And again, it’s very helpful, of course, obviously for developers, unfortunately, not all the regions
Unknown Speaker 11:30
transported these guidelines so it’s not available for all of the 20 regions in Italy. So, once this investigation is completed, which is the key part again of the site selection, we can look at the terrain characteristic. So current terrain here are listed the some of the typical analysis that should be done. Anyway, I would like to focus on the last three items because obviously presents or obstacles is a general indication, Barrett cables. That’s it, guys. Flying we can see that in all the country worldwide like an issue for PE. So, typography, typography orthography and soil assessment is more I think site specific specific for for the Italian market. So let’s go to the next slide them yeah regarding the topography, Italy is generally very early. So the slope analyses can be of, of help identifying potential potential issue mainly for the selection of the PVM on destructor. So, just to give you an example, of some unknown factor, define maximum slopes that are around 15%, North, South, and 30%, West is direction. So in eta, we can, for example, we use a set of tools that to get the instant information about the rain slope and this figure here show Just an example. So we have a plot for for PV installation and in red, you can see areas that are considered steep slopes, and so must be avoided by the trackers system installation. Afterwards, you can see we can send these map these information to order software like AutoCAD, and we can easily prepare Divi layouts with realistic DC capacity. Another important factor aspect is the far shading to the name factor of our RFA should be carefully considered the need for the same reason of the typography. Because again, it’s very early the mainland in Italy for Rafi I mean shadings like mountains and eel around the project area. And in this figure here is typical a typical figure from pvcs And you can see an example of an arise on file imported from Sora GIS in this case and the GRI area is the means the horizon profile the gray one and the yellow one is the solar is the solar profile I would say the yeah the solar profile when the green area overlaps the yellow one, it means that there will be a certain radiation loss. So, obviously there will be a decrease in the future of the actual global example it’s not a radiation. So, this is something that should be carefully considered or seen the energy model and the lastly Let me briefly talk about the soil. So, the main risk in Italy I would say is they either geological
Unknown Speaker 14:53
condition of the of the project area.
Unknown Speaker 14:56
I do geological risks can affect User developments. But of obviously during later stage of the development with flood risk assessment geotechnical investigation, you can dive into this topic much better. However Anything is possible to add memory in for from invent three marks available online. So there is one here that he’s This is the Italian Institute for Environmental Protection and research. And these brand makes available online maps like we have here those maps that provide the historical landslide and flood risk for a given location. So yeah, I think the message is is really important to get as much information as possible from tools like As we can see, we saw today web GIS, and other inventory might select the one from from a spread that could be really helpful to better understand what could be the issue for for your site. So now next slide, I’m gonna give you some insight really brief one regarding the grid connection. The Italian week code offers different ways to connect the large scale solar farm so depending on the expert they requested as escrow capacity, it’s possible to connect your plant either with them which is the DSL, the soil transmission system operator or we one of the distribution system operators dsos. The larger one is a distributes uniformly and when they expect they expect and export the capacity is above 10. Meg’s then you have to apply with dharna and you have to apply in high voltage. When is below this threshold you can apply with a DSLR in medium voltage. Obviously, if you If your plant is above 10 Meg’s then you will need to install an Nv he transformer station with the different costs. And those costs it will be covered will be part of the PC scope for this is something that must be considered in advance depending of course of the scale of the project. Anyway, I would like to highlight that there is let’s say a third way to connect the grid code provides another option these way offer the possibility to split the project above 10 max in a number of smaller one with the capacity of obviously below than 10 max. In this case, you can then connect your your project to the DSL in medium voltage. So there are pros and cons to be to be evaluated as the general comment. Obviously it’s really important today the potential length of the MV and the HP lines. It’s also very, very important the capabilities of the green Have the H v and m v lines in your area and these evaluation will tell you what is the best connection application solution for for your project.
Unknown Speaker 18:13
So, let’s go to I think is the last one. So, yeah brief information about introduction about the designer technology. In we already emphasized the importance of preparing an updated then feasible and also cost effective design at the early stage of the development. So in a TA normally we propose to our clients comprehensive analysis of different scenarios. These scenarios will take into account several inputs, those inputs can be provided both by the client or by the technical advisor. For example, I want to go with efficient model rather than mono facial one. I want to install the packet system and so on. From these scenarios, we can create a number of scenarios up to 30 scenarios and then we can generate a number of PCB layouts and we estimate the bill of material, it is something that will be very important as I said early stage of develop before apply for the world application with the planning authority. Finally, with these numbers we can run PVC simulation and at the very end of this process, we identify the optimal solution for a given site area. So, here from from this table, you can see just some inputs So, that we can consider So, decision like for sample selection between the screens and the central inverters are important because if we want to go with the centralized inverter that we need to we need more electrical cables to go up to be approved by the planning authority to so this is something that should be carefully considered before the planning application. Same I would say it’s for the technology mounting structure technologies, where there’s a clear implication in terms of planning approval if we want to go with the tracker system or fix it Montes structure because there are different hates of the destructor. And now there are another understand also Yeah, the by facial technology can if can be a cost effective solution must be evaluated before rather than later. regarding this topic, there’s been obviously lots of concern in the industry, because it’s not that easy to identify a listicle below levels for a given terrain. in APA we have developed a methodology which can provide the these values with short campaign measurements. So I guess this is not an interesting point to be to be considered. Finally here, I put the optimum The optimal ratio, the CAC ratio, these Yeah, again, it’s really important because we can maximize the yield at the lower cap x with the with the optimal DCC ratio. So, this can be fine with an approach of different scenarios. Our already told you in this in this slide. So, to conclude my very brief introduction of in the market from a technical perspective in a subsidy free area and with such a longer exemption procedures, the more we go in depth in terms of design, in our opinion at every stage, the more we will prevent risk for our project and in term of factory production. So, I think that this is the main mass message that I want I wanted to share with you guys and hope you find you find it helpful and I look forward to doing reading from you with any question.
Belén Gallego 22:02
Thank you. Thank you very much. And read you do have a question already. Thank you very much for giving us that overview. I’m going to we’re going to move swiftly along. We’ll do the questions afterwards to send the questions to the q&a box, Carlo. Can I please ask you to prepare your screen to your microphone?
Unknown Speaker 22:21
Thanks a lot.
Belén Gallego 22:22
Yeah, thank you. And welcome to prepare. Just a reminder, some new people have joined us, just to let you know we are recording this session and you’ll have access to it and to the to also to the materials. And I just like to also welcome everyone I see that there are people from very many different countries here, learning about the Italian market is excellent. You know, this third view was to be built so it’s going to be one of the large markets. And Carla, you’re ready, so go for it.
Unknown Speaker 22:51
Yeah, thanks a lot. So I’ll go as I already introduced myself, I will go straight on To the presentation, and considering gold, so the quite tight time we have I try to be as straight as possible so and to touch a domain what I think are the main points in order to develop new solar projects in Italy in the next meet term future. So as Andrea also said, I think it’s very important to start from the main basic fundamentals that are key to make the investment efficient and to generate as much profit as possible for the investors. So starting from that perspective, that a key point is to well and our Lies all possible constraints affecting the site, because first of all, some of them might impede even the realization of a solar installation and other kind of cost rains might have anything but on the main carpet structures by increasing topics, and these obviously might affect the financial model by the investors. And we’ll see also in the next slides.
Unknown Speaker 24:35
How much important so far is the
Unknown Speaker 24:40
use destination of the land? There is a big, big
Unknown Speaker 24:50
Unknown Speaker 24:52
between non agricultural industrial versus agricultural land, we’ll go back to this specific point. Because as already many people are saying it is somehow a fake issue. And so, we should try to treat it as actually these and the main conclusion is yes, it is possible it should be possible to realize PD projects on agricultural lands even if based on our current legislation that such projects are not eligible to benefit from state incentives, so to join public tenders around by the state to the GST, but it is possible by entering into private biological PPA. So we’ll go back to this specific point what is important is try to select those sites which even if formerly used for agricultural purposes actually, they are either not used at all for agricultural purposes or the kind of agricultural which is carried on on those sides is very poor. So, this is another preliminary check, which I think is key to avoid, avoid the project to be then stop by the environmental impact assessment run by the competent public authority, a log of entity and then to check also in advance the connection availability by speaking either with the DSO or with dnn as the case may be with a high voltage mid voltage. But this is a key point why we’re speaking Ditalion t so 10 I simply made by by 10s of geeks All new requests for connection and obviously they cannot satisfy all of them by definition. So, there are certain criteria to be follow, which are time related connection availability related. And it is key to have that kind of dialogue on a very let’s say, formal basis, in order to preliminary check that these solution the connection solution can actually become real. I also stress Sorry, I also stressed the importance of something which is, is an many, many times under estimated and I think it’s not only because we are in Italy, but it’s an it’s true anywhere even in North America, even in the UK. I think it’s Important to carry on a well level of investigations towards a project developers and land owners and these to avoid that going forward, you discover that you have but a compliance related matter, which again might be an issue also for the internal compliance by the investor or simply for reputational reasons and this kind of these are the investigations that’s our experience should be for sure deeper than the normal know your customer procedures that is used in
Unknown Speaker 28:41
Unknown Speaker 28:45
institutions, either banks or equity investors, as the case may be. So there are professional investigators, and it’s good in my opinion, to have a file in advance So, whatever happened in the future you can show to have use the proper diligence. And so to be out of any possible liability, and this is important not only for the physical person in charge of structuring that specific investment, but also for the legal entity investing on a project and for its reputation. We are now experiencing many, many discussions. In the last few days in Rome, there has been the so called state generals patching the new Green Deal. And it seems, obviously it’s only what seems to everybody reading the media that there is a federal mortgage vironment through 14 renewable it’s not only renewable, it’s
Unknown Speaker 30:06
Unknown Speaker 30:09
in the direction of the energy transition trying to accelerate the energy transition, we see what we would expect in concrete from New from New NBA age legislation by Ditalion government. And this is exactly the point I was touching in the next slides because so far as sports Andrea, and expressed in his presentation, the longer term addition process is a killer application. You know, where you start you do not know when the the authorization process actually might finish, we can say that the average timeline is around 18 to 24 months. And what we would expect by the greater simplification which is an expected new law that should be approved hopefully by the end of the year, a material
Unknown Speaker 31:19
Unknown Speaker 31:22
way to simplify their organization process to align regional requirements to avoid that any given region might have their own perspective their own requirements are different from the others. So trying to have the see as much as possible the same requirements by the region in order to successfully reach the so called shuvit ready status. And then what I hope whole bunch will be implemented is One study committee coordinating different entities that might be inclined to follow their own interests that we check theoretically might be in conflict with the others. We have the Darian t. So we have the environmental ministry, which is important for some environmental impact assessment. Not let’s say so much related to solar but mainly for wind. And we have Ditalion GSP, which is the entity managing public tenders and paying feeding tardif and awarding now long term ppas for wind projects and and PD projects on industrial sites. So we have the energy authority. So it’s good to have the region’s we it’s good to have all of these entities well coordinated, now, agricultural versus industrial areas. So, just a very, very few numbers. Now, in any any year in Italy, only hundreds and 25,000 actors used for agriculture’s are left to agricultural purposes, so they actually are not cultivated anymore. So if you think that is to realize by by by assuming one sec on should we realize 40 Giga on agricultural areas only we would need 80,000 actors and so that’s a quite clear number and and 10% of all the cultural land he needed, he is not utilized is not actually used for agricultural purposes. So what we would expect from the government is a clear identification of the agricultural areas, which either because of the specific nature of the land or for other reasons that are not well exploited and cannot be exploited for a rich agricultural user. And so, solar installations, there might be a proper way to exploit those plants. So this is something that we would expect will arrive in the very next future. And now we’re speaking about solar in order to reach the targets we have by 2030. I think that revamping repowering is a key point, because by revamping our repowering only we might satisfy, we might match a good percentage of the goal we need to achieve by 2030 and storage is another key points. We know that now. A few months ago awarded some beakers for capacity. remuneration I think that storage next to a solar and wind projects as well as should be allowed to be remunerated. Further ancillary services to the week as well. And now, we
Unknown Speaker 36:08
expect in the next 18 to 24 months, a strong development of utility scale solar utility scale projects in the country. So we think that there would be also a quite important market of new of sale of authorization, Chauvet ready projects. And now we are entering into also a PPA related topic which I would like to touch in my in my next slide, which is a key point for any investors wanting to buy a project Schubert ready a bubble in this specific period of time in which The energy price is very much depressed, as all of us know very well. And now, we spoke about how much important is repowering and revamping, it’s very important for the investors in order to see demise by repowering and revamping activities to be able to rely on the kind of optimizations they need to get in order to rebound slash repower their existing plants. We already emphasized how much important is is this specific activity we mentioned and we touched already the capacity market and how much input that would be for battery storage solutions next to solid And we’re so unpredictable renewable technology to benefit from remuneration for their and ciliary services to the grid. And this is something that so far has not found a way to answer by the government by the fact that new Peters different from traditional CCGs are now quite old technologies but having a much more flexible technology, they just have been awarded the capacity market tenders by they’re not. And there is now in the market, an important deal managed by an institutional financial advisor in this specific segment. It’s a very positive sign and looking forward, now going to the BPA market. For sure where we spend About unsubsidized projects, PPA is a key topic. Now as far as solar projects are concerned to the extent they are based on our current legislation on industrial areas, they might benefit from long term ppas awarded by the state through public tenders, which is a lot let me say because the last tender actually experience and Northbridge feeding directly from BPA value, let me say around 57 euro cents per kilowatt hour if not longer, and if I mean, it’s pointless to to stress how much it is ntds protect for 20 years. To the extent solar projects are on agricultural areas, they should structure the revenue stream either On the pure merchants a base case or on mid long term PPA bilateral ppas are either corporate ppas or ppas with utility slash traders now I need to say that the target market is very honest on developed from this perspective so far the market experience before the the sanitary emergency will add to the COVID situation a very few cases of long term ppas 10 years seven years five years I’m I’ve been personally involved in two out of the three that the market experience so far and
Unknown Speaker 40:51
that’s that’s mainly why the market is not well done a lot. A key balling let me touch what I think is the main key point here. Right now and property for the next two years, I think it’s not possible for an investor having a project shovel ready in this time period to benefit from a long term ppas because it would mean mainly to keep their financial model considering where the energy prices are now, and I think that by the end of the year, the average of the energy price in the country should be between 34 or 36 euro cents, so much lower than it was last year. So, this means that, in my opinion, end investors should breach the next 12 1824 months before entering into a long term ppas by which I mean 10 years plus either private or corporate. In order not to be so much penalized. So how it is possible to realize projects shovel ready in this timeline without entering into long term ppas, which might mean without leverage the investments on a long term basis and on a non recourse basis. By entering into a project finance with an institutional lender, that’s the key point. So, either it is possible to structure such as a B Corp or a bridge, having some project financing that mechanic in place for a short time period 80 months plus between 18 months and two, three years so that it is possible to repay that debt. facility line that bridge whatever it is, once it will be possible to enter into a longer long term PPA, when the market will be recovered when the energy prices will be higher and we’ll be back to their labor live it’s where they stand before the COVID situation started. So, this is something where I think is important to to think of where it is important to have the support buy in the financing market by the lending market not only by the usual traditional institutional lenders, but also by private debt funds. Being able to structure specific projects being available to match the space these these Expectations this kind of demand, I need to say that I am involved in discussions with some lenders on these specific topics to bridge this kind of period in order then to be able to maximize the position for an investor once the market will be recovered enough there is another kind of PPA and that’s my last point and then I promise to to finish my presentation, a something that I would expect that even if it will not be, let’s say it will not play the most important part in the PPA market immediately. Are is the corporate PPA I would expect that in the country big corporate any way for meaning tangible and tangible reasons like pointless to be stressed now would be available to enter into need long term ppas. And there it is possible probably to have a premium on top of the same meet long term PPA with the utility traders. So I think it’s valuable to spend time to negotiate with big corporates. I’m thinking about the the big corporates that we have in Italy that might need anyway mainly for communication green neighbors related reasons to to enter into this kind of meet long term ppas Thanks a lot. I don’t know if you have questions, we can answer them at the end.
Belén Gallego 45:47
Thank you very much, Carlo Thank you very much. I’m gonna ask Eleonora to to share your screen and Carlo actually would appreciate if you can take a look at the q&a. There is a few questions for you and maybe answer them by text because Let’s see how much time we have at the end. I’m just not sure we’ll have enough time to answer them live we’ll see how we go. I do keep sending the questions and undress also answering them by text so
Unknown Speaker 46:12
Unknown Speaker 46:14
Let me see let me Can you hear me?
Belén Gallego 46:17
Yes, we can hear you. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 46:19
Okay, please. Okay. Okay, great. So I will go straight to the point and I throw it away sound charts considering that Karen and then throughout all of the appointments so basically going down to the point we presented before analyzing power
Belén Gallego 46:41
in big screen please learner Sorry,
Unknown Speaker 46:42
I will do it but it seems Don’t worry the judges get you
Belén Gallego 46:47
have at least 12 minutes so you can you can take your time. That’s right.
Unknown Speaker 46:51
Um, so anybody let me say that in power started the its history something like 10 years ago, when Probably renewable to work consider a little bit exotics, but someone within the need of incentives and other costs of technology. As we are reminded just now with the with undress feature today, the gamma channel integrative energy cleaner is setting up a huge market for newborns in terms of units sold capacity. I mean that more or less depends on the situation about to assess something like a plus 30 gee boy, what on regarding PV, including the PV on rooftop and more, plus 10 gigawatts of wind up the scale product. For sure, and then we are solely focused in this moment on building up a pipeline a consistent pipeline on both technologies to support the there are deficiencies And to provide the discipline without calling them as the other or the very don’ts, let me say that are doing in this moment. I don’t want to bore you with any specific technical aspects. And I don’t want to repeat what my colleagues have told you before. So I try to go straight to some ingredients that probably can pass to you the market they need today for us the argument I try to Lisa some some of the most important ones them. So basically, whenever the acquisition process, as we mentioned before, and then we’ll go through later are some means to dispel that are very interesting. technology and business models and the one that we used to apply in each market considering the each market factor it’s unethical Yeah. R e, and finally, sustainability and stakeholder engagement. Let’s start with the first one. As we told just now to achieve me It started to be a spat something like four gigawatts of new enterprise projects or plants in operation per year are splitting between PV and wind technology. And as Carla was mentioning before, today, the average time for to get a window position is something like five years of a window and more than one year for PV. So for sure, no, I’m fitting with the target and timing of the decarbonisation process expected by me. But probably you read a lot during the last week. So last month, so on all the work that the government is doing during last week, Though in thermal the simplification of a transition process to basically speed up this kind of investment and to facilitate the protection deepness target also looking from a economy relaunch point of view. The second the second ingredient some is to dispel ah we used to listen a lot about the land use and land consumption and we commented before
Unknown Speaker 50:38
to get the 2030 mix target the easily is not going to be covered by foreigners at all. I knew that if I asked you the CRM of EDA leads that will be impacted by all the new capacity in the roof for sure. Expecting But doesn’t it? I don’t know if someone knows the answer by We try to perform these analysis at all. So other operator needed them. And it’s quite interesting to see that the answer is something like very, very close to moons of brianza area, that is the small red area constants that are concentrated in the top of the bar. Just to complete the analysis, we did the same exercise for winter and the area is close to prattle that probably a lot of people know. So this is something on which we are working. Also with our stakeholders, justly speller, some expectation that sometimes are not correct. If we look at this numbers, going to on the next point, business on the next ingredient business model and in the technology, I read also Some interesting question before and then we’ll be happy to answer. As we know rest production and TV production is strongly depending on some presence. But we tested them successfully that copying the storage equipment with the PV power plants cannot the plan to overcome its receiver limits intermodal flexibility and predictability. This this business model, we employ we implemented this business model in other countries of our presence, where there is the possibility to basically stack all of different kinds of services so that the power plants are integrated with the store and can provide to itself into the system. In particular cabling is stored with the PV targeting a different kind of services. Cannot the power plant a producer for example, its risk of production predictability. For instance, intermodal negative negative impact for octane mentum seeding the energy to be used later or reducing them bottom seeing everything the power plant to to respect to match the forecasted profile that that, that was that has been forecasted on the market before on top of these in some markets, these kinds of projects and those the power plant also to enter into new services market like then ciliary services and probably this is something that the market overall point of view is very efficient and because the renewables support over gamma, they receive a lenita in terms of predictability and flexibility. Looking at the cost. Today, as probably all we know, the costs of PV recorded huge, huge degrees of something like 80% in less than a year, so a lot of people telling more than 100% in less than a year about this, this is the brand look in the water was commenting before, this is something that we see as a similar expectation for energy storage. In other words, we are saying the same is true of PV for this kind of technology. In particular, I’m referring to Liam bothers store up to the tower, the ones more use more implemented from a commercial application. And we record this sound like 50% of degrees in last five years, and we especially The foster father degrees for the next ones and the for sure market and market evolution that can encourage this kind of business model we love to visit nology to be more feasible.
Unknown Speaker 55:17
Then last but not least, them sustainability This is not a slogan, this is the one that we apply. This is the ingredients that we apply all over the world to go ahead with our plans for design and development of onions that I mean that we start the thinking to a sustainable approach by the beginning of the face of the development. It means, for example, that we are strongly focused on land selection starting by the North American ultra hora to from the agricultural we’ll know environmental constraints. For example. Moreover, we used to focus on stakeholder engagement with the strong listening approach by the beginning to basically go ahead together for the developing and at the same time the integration of the project in the environment. So this is a VLAN. A quick, very quick overview that I would like to throw at you and with the old parties among participants, and just to complete them. I would like to commend that our thoughts probably are not so recent, because someone started a few years ago to talk about the bottom, we are quite optimistic. And probably we will find very, very soon the solution for the last challenge is to go ahead successfully for PV development in Italy.
Belén Gallego 56:52
Thank you. Thank you very much Eleonora, you’ve done it also in record time. So but Carlo and Andre have Been like very busy like answering questions. So let’s just take a few of the ones that have just come up. Andrea and Carlo, could you just unmute your microphone so that we can all talk? We have five minutes or so we can ask some questions. A lot of questions here have been about storage, right. Is it required? Are they going to pay capacity? Can we use hybrid approaches? So I’ve seen the answers. You know, there is no legislation as of yet but it’s expected. Inflation is going to be passing anytime soon. Carla, perhaps you can
Unknown Speaker 57:37
call? Yes. I.
Unknown Speaker 57:41
I think that the Guardian is part of and thanks to God is part to the European Union. And so we mainly follow also what other EU member states
Unknown Speaker 57:57
are used to do automation specific context. So,
Unknown Speaker 58:03
so far so far, the only revenue stream for deriving from batteries battery storage solutions is related to the energy sale that such solutions can secure and this is not sufficient considering the cost of such kind of technology to sustain the relevant investments box I would expect in the short run enough to have a new legislation allowing batteries battery storage solutions to join public tenders in order for them to compete. We TCG DS and other kinds of technologies in order to be remunerated for their and ciliary services to the grid. making reference to the primary secondary, tertiary frequency. And, and that so far it’s something that for which only CCG DS and now beakers are remunerated, to the extent also battery storage and I’m very confident they might be more flexible in certain respect and then and also economically speaking more more more competitive, because they do not need to secure long term gas supply as it is the case of CCGs that they would be allowed to get paid for such services. So, once you can combine such kind of remuneration, together with the energy say, related remuneration and assuming that we Going forward, such technology cost is going to be the use, or all of these to say that in the next 18 months time, this is a technology that should develop a lot in the country.
Belén Gallego 1:00:12
Thank you very much. Carter, would you like to add anything? You know, I think from the perspective of a developer, this is also an important question, you know, when and how but as I’m sure you are planning on the background, when unless you have the go ahead from the government, you can’t really do much, especially the capacity payments, you know, it’s not clear how people are going to get
Unknown Speaker 1:00:31
to the point regarding the store a couple of weeks, we had a lot of questions. Just sorry for simplifying by the mother, he provides you with a very simple thing. It’s hard to enter at one time and provide the degree at another time. But we think that the real value of this kind of technology is basically to define the best size and services start with the for each specification. Roll just with a tailor made approach, not with a sounder approach to enable all their new boards independently by their size, their resources and so on to the same services. I mean that, for example, they are exactly the same product with a different market or with a different kind of energy strategy can be supported by and can be more valuable with a different project design in thermal store after that we’re going to cover for szura as Carol was mentioning before, it’s very difficult now to repay a store out in this market with just one application. And this is not so common also in other markets for our for our experience. Usually storage is something that can apply the risk and risk instrument and for some aspect for for a newer board so, and can help them to enter into a blue ocean market like the ancillary services one, we tested successfully in USA, where local markets are supporting this kind of hybrid project. So also in Australia and so on, I think that the other government as this whole other kind of aspects will arrive to the to the same point. This is not innovation from our point of view, this is a commercial variola.
Belén Gallego 1:02:42
I think if anything is innovation, from the point of view, have we think about loads, right? Because first we were like for hundreds of years, like okay, I produce energy when I needed and now we have resource and we have demand and we have to make sure there’s too much happen is not easy. And it’s completely different innovation in terms of how we think about energy, but Other than that really
Unknown Speaker 1:03:02
clear probably the innovation effects are related to different kind of storage technology that can support the long term sources, not the one or that we experience for example, in some salty Delhi, high Lanza, where you have the consumption of 10 people for all the era, and then you skate on to something like 1000 people for three months, you know, so as storage to cover with the we dress in this moment that can support the martyr problem. The Greek challenge is try to insist on this kind of different technology to charge on this charger with a more flexible way and to, to face a challenge like the one that for instance,
Belén Gallego 1:03:57
I described so far. How Interesting, and a lot of questions as well. And this is my last question and then we will go is about agriculture and agri voltaic printed. I never heard this word before. So this has been an interesting mix these things, you know, can it work? I know that Andrea wanted to answer it, but I will also open to the two of you, but and then maybe you can start. I mean, how feasible are these projects?
Unknown Speaker 1:04:26
How do they want it? Yeah, I mean, there has been lots of rumors in Italy in the last month regarding the agri will die. So basically it’s co developing in the same area both solar PV and agriculture. So it sounds like a great approach and can can move ahead with the more sore in agricultural. Also, I will say that wheat farmers all over eataly struggling and demanding of L but because of the current situation will be of course it’s could be a good Time to talk about the solution. Anyway, I will say that also there are lots of developers now I came across a few projects with the with the this kind of solution in early stage of the permission. Anyway, I will say that this is not going to be a game changer for PvE. in agricultural lands, I’ve seen a great slide from Eleonora about the soil consumption. That was I think, amazing, because it’s clear that we don’t have a problem with the consumption of the soil in Italy, we do have a problem with the with the simplification. So we need the clear message. As also Carla mentioned the earlier we need the clear mention message about which kind of land could be useful because there are plenty of lands now in Italy. So again, I think that would be something that we definitely need to to go in depth regarding design in detail. So about two appeal was taken by can help with the more share of the target of the neck
Belén Gallego 1:06:07
Krav Maga Leonora I don’t know this is maybe I don’t know if it’s a legal issue but certainly technical issue you know from the point of view especially if cleaning so what do you think
Unknown Speaker 1:06:19
we are developing some kind of this product covering every will tie with the with the with a BB on on any counter let me say that as I was mentioning before it’s not a slogan but as a with a stronger focus on sustainability environmental laws, stakeholder involvement ah probably it can support some way the Enable the development. Andrea was a was a lighting as well that sometimes we will feel Have something that will that will know. Because the land use of all the capacitors in 30 seconds, something like this. This is amazing. And we check it a lot of time and as other operators perform the same Okay, probably is correct. You know, I’m joking, but probably sometimes we have no clear perception on the on the Wi Fi yourself that will impact
Unknown Speaker 1:07:31
Unknown Speaker 1:07:31
Belén Gallego 1:07:36
Okay, well we’ll leave it here for now. I just wanted to thank you very much, Carol, thank you very much Eleonora. Thank you very much, Andrea for sharing with us today and obviously thank you to all our audience as well. So you know, we are actually doing a follow up webinar on lowering LC and your by fight by facial TV projects in Italy. So do sign up for that the link is on the on the chat or you know, in our article So thank you very much and see you next time.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:03
Bye. Bye bye bye bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai