Recording and presentations: Concentrating Solar Heat: Lessons learned in Mexico

 

16 October 2019

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Automatic transcription (It may contain errors)

Hello everyone, if you have come to watch a webinar, concentrated solar heat lessons learned in Mexico you’re at the right place. So we won’t start just yet. We’ll wait for a couple of minutes and then We’ll start with the presentations by our experts. In the meantime, I’d like to remind you a couple of things that we, we always do here at apa Insights and one of them is will definitely send you the recording and the presentations, but we will encourage you to stay online because it is your chance to ask questions. I’ll repeat this a few times during the webinar because I think it bears repeating. But if it’s your first time you will see in your toolbar at the bottom of the screen, you’ll see a q amp questions that answers box. So in that q amp a box, you can send in your questions to our experts, and we’ll we’ll answer them at the end. Then the other thing that we do here is that we have a small tradition or How awareness which eats do mentioned where you’re connecting from. So I’m here with my colleague at SA from Madrid, in Spain. So see, we have ankle connecting from Mexico, I believe on Pedro from Portugal say, already quite an international webinar. But, you know, I’d like the to encourage your audience to let us know where they are joining from. And we’ll start. We’ll start shortly, another minute or so and we’ll get the webinar started.

right so let’s start now. And so welcome to the messiest BK webinar concentrated solar heat lessons learned a Mexico so today our two experts and have me here and better or will share some of the lessons learned in installing a concentrated so the heat for industrial processes in Mexico and how those lessons could be transferred to other geographies including the MENA region. So, without further ado, please, Pedro.

Start with your presentation, please

share Good afternoon, everyone. First of all, thank you so much for interested for attending this webinar. Thank you so much for Ida insight for the nutrition and raw, we’ll just start my presentation by the sharing screen.

So, I guess you can see my my presentation.

So my presentation is based on a recent experience I had on this topic was

in both Mexico and Jordan, and I would like to to make a comparison between two these two different contexts.

And before going into the contents,

lessons learned my insight is that definitely Mexico presents an interesting context for for this kind of applications.

So first of all, I would like

to p&i resource, which is the fuel we are using, when using concentrating solar needs, and when we compare the source we find in Jordan to find Mexico, we see very, very, very, they are very like. So in Mexico, especially the central North region presenting to those we might find in Jordan. And so definitely on that regard, both countries present very interesting not to say more solar resource potentials. And then one other important aspect has to do with, of course, the available technologies, but also with the potential we might find in the different industrial sectors. We find each other. So in regard to technologies, and I believe the technologies I know at least two most of the attendees, but basically, as of today, there are commercially available technologies enabling the production of eat up to 444. So, I would say that most commonly concentrated solar heat application so far have been going up to 200 degrees. That does not mean that high temperatures are not possible they are possible they are available solutions but focusing on on on this on this temperature level up to 200 degrees, which includes all the non energy sectors, textile, barefooted leather, machinery manufacturing support. If you look into the data On the right of the slides, you can see the film who had it percentage of total manufacturing for different industries. And so this is information by needle via the one line. And what we can see is that, whereas in Jordan, we might find potential for temperatures below 200 degrees, standing for about 51% of the total manufacturing environment, that value for Mexico is even higher, and it’s around 65 years. So that shows us indeed that the sectors which could more easily be decades as of today with these technologies represented important at film. In the total manufacturing capacity, Mexico said that this is a good indication of a good market potential. On the other hand, I’m not going to deeply into into investment assessment of particular projects. But we want to can see, in terms of competitiveness and comparing to the study. We mean I keep CSP project did some months ago in regard to different countries and regions, including Jordan. I was comparing the evolution of prices of different fuels in Mexico. And his information is very reasonable. And we don’t we found in the Romanian complex, mainly natural gas and diesel, because for these results, to be a farmer raise some interesting results in regards to competitiveness. And what we can see Mexico is that of course there is a important difference We’ve got two fuel sources being replaced by Central Intelligence. So on one hand, we have over 45 natural gas and natural gas, we’d rather low costs. So standing for costs below the natural gas costs we could find for Jordan as of today, but when it comes to to GDP or diesel, especially diesel, the costs are actually when I define. So, this is a very important information because of course, the competitiveness of this technological solution will always depend on the energy source being substituted. And so if we look into the conclusions we found in the keeper of

the project, We got the Jordan. And of course, we must look to the macroeconomic us. What we could see was that four different variants of solar resource which you can find here, we could see that when we were replacing diesel

average technology costs as of today,

the cost of the solar institutions seem to be competitive, pretty much all.

When it comes to natural gas, that is no longer the case, of course, taking into consideration a critical capex level for a high PSP, which is, well a standard approach industry. Not the best approach. My opinion but it’s a standard approach would be treat Of course, these results depends very much on the expectations in regards to eternal weight of the tunnel.

So looking into what we might

find is reported Project 7042 on an international database, which is the sheep plant influence base, maybe the most comprehensive database on concentrated solely meat and solar processes projects in general, worldwide. We can see that in Jordan, we might identify already three projects, standing for a total of 2000 feet square meters and stones. being the largest of these projects GDPR tobacco manufacturing company in Georgia we need a total of 1882 creditors, all the federal authorities. And when we look into the same information we got to Mexico. Well actually the situation is much more promising we can find already 73 reported projects with a total installed solar collector area of more than 31,000 square meters, being the largest of the planets reported in the database compromising Latina using 6200 square meters of water. So, this is to me indication of the potential of these technological solutions in Mexico. Add to that bottle presentations but add to that my personal perspective of what I could see Mexico students The country yet has already very important resources in terms of awareness of the technology. And that is public support for conducting energy audits and for using the technologies in an industrial context. So, me personally, I would say that Mexico is actually one of the most promising countries worldwide, in the in the present moment for the use of these technologies. So this is my brief presentation comparing these two countries. So be open for further discussions. You will have my contacts presentation if you’d like to discuss some of the issues in this regard. And so please feel free to ask any questions. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Pedro, for your presentation. Very interesting. And as you said bedroom, I’d like to encourage the audience who are being a bit shy today to share their questions through the q amp a box. So is your chance to have the first first question. So I hope to see quite a few more of you could stop sharing your presentation now. And then we’ll give keep the floor to ask him to give his presentation.

I’m ready now.

Okay. See the presentation is often screen and I can say these working properly. So over to you.

Thank you. Thank you, Carlos.

Nice to share these webinar with you.

Will I present myself My name is Phil Mickelson Thiago. I’m the CEO, co founder of inventive power. And well, we’re a Mexican company. My co founder elbow grace and me, we co founded company about eight years ago. The company started as a university project. We started developing, concentrating solar technologies. So at the end, we we see that there was a huge market on the industrial solar heat. So we start developing our technology. So now we have more than 40. People working with us as a company, and also we have a lot of our indie collaborations with national and international institutes and also nationals government support in order to support or RMB development we have received several awards to the US that we have working on the company.

Also.

At the beginning of this year, we get or ISO certification of quality. So some company we have or processes designer to be designer to attend any type of clients, but once to install a solid term project on their facilities. Great. So, Bell Road showed all of the same graph about the potential of this solar radiation that our country There’s almost all the country have potential to install these type of concentrating technologies. Of course, the north of Mexico have really good relations, but almost all Mexico is suitable in style, any type of solar technology. So, we are very, very lucky country to have these resources available. And I think so, we need to work harder to take advantage of the resources as soon as possible. About last year, there was the development of a heat map in Mexico. So in this map, it was done from several governmental entities and also from the AK set up. And these these map shows where is they they places in the country that consume more heat. So this map is very good for or market because we can see regions in Mexico where we where there’s the most consumption of heat. And if we do some zoom on the map, we can see almost not very close Luke areas in a CPE where you can when you can see factories or different facilities who consume so i think so this is a good to that help us in order To see prospect for or technology so well everyone knows that he is in every day in our life so there’s almost all the products that we eat or we are the clothes that we use or the or the beverage that we drink almost all products are made with heat. So he is very important on our day on our on our daily and your daily basis. And is it important that these type of heat can be provided from a renewable source and almost now, all the attention are vocal just in electricity, renewable electricity and also in the mobility area on the couch. cars and trucks. But I have but industries and key is a very important source of co2 emissions that we have to tackle in order to prevent climate change. So in Mexico, there’s a large market opportunity. There’s more than 32,000 boilers, installers and water heaters. There’s a huge potential in this market. And well, as pelo told us, there’s a different type of industries that use very intensive use of heat Okay, so, a company developed to type of solar collectors, we have two models power for 110 and power of 200 PE. So we have a range of temperature that we can provide with these collectors from 60 to 250 degrees Celsius. So these both products are very flexible to style on the roof of areas of the factories or on on on on the land on available areas in order to generate heat and consume directly in an industrial processes.

Everybody know how this technology work this as a public trough collector that focus the sunlight on the receiver and we have a tracking system that is automatically

and it has several features that prevent

some type of failures like overheating

in order to prevent any failure on the on the system on the collection, of course will they need to how the more important challenge in this stuff in this type of project because how you will integrate the collectors to the indulgent industrial processes. So I think so there, there is where the magic works because you need to do tailor made project for each installation in order to integrate collectors with actual processes and the process Don’t be a disrupted for the use of the solar energy. So the process has to work as usual, and the process don’t have to be aware of what type of earning energy is consuming, it is consuming, consuming steam from the boiler or is consuming a steam from the collectors. So that’s I think so the main challenge of these type of projects. So, spread the sparrow shows in the temple of Jordan is that Well, solar thermal energy is the cheapest way to consume heat in, in Mexico is the cheapest way to consume heat. So of course, the cell is very expensive. We can see in this graph, even though in convert to natural gas, if you do a LTOH analyses, you can see that even though solar energy is cheaper than natural gas and natural gas prices Mexico that are very low because, well Mexico don’t produce natural gas but we are next to the biggest market on that regard. That is Texas. So all natural gas provide from Texas and it’s very, very cheap, but even though they’re more fuller term of energy that she was waiting to consume.

So we’ll

We have more than 100 brands in style in Mexico more than 24 states there’s a an examples of companies that we have worked we have been working here in Mexico and we can see some installations some pictures. You can see more information on the chief plan web page, but there’s many title examples like this plan in this played that we heat water to feed some heat processes for the very plant or these candy factory they need keep in order to produce the candies, all these formulas. These these projects will acerra wala harass a Rocco’s and he is the brand of the company. We design RR customization, so, we connect directly the collectors to the to the personalization machine. So, it was very challenging, because pasteurization is a very, very delicate process the temperature has to be very, very precise. So, this was a very big challenge. We did it we we connect the collectors with the authorization machine and the process works perfectly. Um This is another example this is one of the be is more from or Mexican industries. This is some mythical factory. So they have to produce mezcal, you need our heat for distillation, or, or fermentation processes. So we provide heat for these factory as well. And also we work with was like where would I be one of the biggest

brands in the world.

This is one of our newest project this project is in eating cheese factory. So, we are installing this project to produce 3.5 tons of steam per day for the bastardization process before the production of the cheese. So this also it’s a very challenged project because we are connecting the project with the with the main esteem with the main steam pipes of the factory, so we have to work a lot without them. The station of this project in order to provide heat from solar or provide heat from from the boiler and but always have the same pressure on the on the pipes of this impacts. It’s very, very challenging. I think like almost in one week we’re going to deliver these predict your customer. Right. So there’s some map of project that we have in style from all over Mexico so we’re we are very focused now on the medical market market. I think so Mexican market is huge. It’s a very challenging to work here. But I think so, market is a it’s a very suitable for any company who wants to develop these type of projects I think so we need more companies that can provide these type of installations in Mexico we are very happy to work with any other type of company to try to develop more or market as a company we’re looking to another market like Chile or some Caribbean islands as well. Because there’s huge potential there also. Just to finish, we we sell or projects on different type we sales project directly to our clients as they were made a product project and also we sales to business representative like another companies that work or know the engineering we provide the product and they install the product as well with or with our support and also we have a new type of sales. That is sale thermal energy is a heat push a agreement that is like a heating as a service. So, we invest on the solar plan and we we sign energy contract and we sell the thermal energy to our clients on a 10 and another’s 10 year contract. So we sell the thermal energy cheaper as they are paying now. Of course, we operate on maintains the project arm on all the time of the contract. So we are now closing our first deal with these type of of a range of agreements. And we are very excited to develop more of these business models on the next month. So great guys. Thank you very much

Thank you very much and helpful your presentation. So you can see we’ve had quite a lot of questions and I could see Pedro typing away answering most of them, thank you Phaedra will take on some some of them to be read out loud and in particular like to focus on business models. So, it seems that you know, these as both of you, Pedro handheld, you have pointed out there is a need for heat, which is great and then electric need your electric demand. Still, you know, there is still a lack of the industry starting to to realize that they could have a renewable option in solar energy. So, it seems that one of our big obstacles is the fact that they would need to, in many cases, companies I will often to invest up front. So, you know, what are the the options that they that companies have if they don’t if they’re not willing or able to put all the Catholics in one go to have a CSH project? Or simply they don’t want to own the project outright? They just want to own the heat because I would say you know, he’s the same with most corporations. They don’t really own the

the

power generator they own they buy any trustee. So

what are your video? Thoughts on these angles? So out of a business models that you outlined there at the end, which one is the one that companies are going for?

And you still need a mute?

Yeah, sorry. There’s a

it’s a very good questions because yeah, keep eating Service pump companies the heat associated with they pay a monthly bill to the gas or few company and that’s it’s an op x is an is an operational expenses. So if you go there and you try to try to convert this hoping to a capex investment that’s the challenge so I Yeah, I think so these type of business models that you convert this capex to not FX, it’s easy is more easy to convince clients in order to set these proposals also. Well clients, there are not experts in for any we have seen a lot of projects sometimes clients don’t look or don’t take care of the maintenance of the equipment, because it’s not their main purpose may they may be their main main purpose is to produce the killer but not reproduce not to take care of solar plants. So

we have seen that it’s very, very

is necessary that us as a company or an order company, have maintenance contract in order to maintain always the best fee, the best performance of the solar plant. And yeah, if they own the product is is more easy that they don’t take care of the product. It’s better if we do the service also to operate and maintain the plan. So yeah, but sometimes Businesses very good capex and return of investment is very weak.

Clients prefer to pay off.

Okay, thank you very much bedroom if you’d like to add anything to my ankle set, yes.

Looking to this question from the perspective of the research, trying to understand the dynamics of both technologies, but also have the potential market

it seems to me

that finance is a very critical question. When it comes to processing typically we are dealing with an investment which deserves an assessment in terms of net present value in not of paper and if we are talking about some of the typical Production for CSP, this is the approach of building internet presence value, not only to be there, so they are willing to take longer capex regardless that in the end, they have an interest that we have an interesting idea. But when it comes to small and medium or large companies, investment assessment is always done. And normally the first indication of a reasonable Daybreak we get from this request, in our experience

as a different opinion, but I don’t think it

is that they are willing to accept the bigger two years. So it’s very, very difficult not to say impossible to find such as America, and Lester Young Living with the empty source of truth. Absolutely out of context, totally expensive. So we must have in mind that you’re purchasing any people, which is going to deliver the energy you’re using for the next 20 years. So it’s like you buying a car, but buying the gasoline car for the next 20 years all at once. So, of course, these require people to approach to do this. So that’s why I believe that this is a business which is very important to an Eskimo model or there might even be different models. So as I was talking about these is also possibility and there is not much tradition into into using these kind of models in this kind of application source area to see those presentation because we are working on it and to my face. This is the right way to go. These applications

and, you know, it makes a lot of things like think both both have mentioned that, you know, these kind of model where you take the, you assume Well, the the heat producer assume some of a race so the consumer doesn’t have to do shoulder all of these races. He said he’s ideal, but then you know, I have seen a question Hey, by Eloqua the most which I think is the one that I was going to ask next, which is, you know, when you is this handheld when you sign a heat purchase agreement, you take all the race or I do getting support from Xcode from financial institutions, from the government. How do you know how is it possible for you to offer a heat purchase equipment or how do you manage your money Risk of offering and heat purchase agreement.

Okay. Can you hear me? Yes.

So for I keep pushing agreement that well of course there’s there’s risk there. So, you have to analyze they will, how you going to integrate the project to the actual industrial processes, because you need to be sure that the product the production of heat from the solar plan will have impact on on the consumption of fuel of the of the company. And also you have to look for processes and industry that past to consume all the heat that you produce. You can only style in a company that doesn’t work. seven days a week or that maybe have a session on production. So, you have to look about that. And also the reason is about the daily function of the of the plant. So, do you need to propose these type of business models for big projects in order that you have someone who operates the plants every day, so you have to pay for someone that will be always looking for the optimal performance of the plant and you will. You can have these expenses when you have a big thermal generation. So you have to do a very good one payments. operation, Operation our schedule. So in order that you get your that you always will get the most energy from the plant.

Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. So what you have mentioned there is that you’re literally looking at from the operational point of view and having the most optimal performance. So you can secure your return. Would you say that’s that’s fair? Given these toys into a question that was asked early on, which is about the performance issues that you might find in a project of these kind, was asked by Frank moss who is a man with many, many days of experience team, he’s in 60 in the power sector. and developing CSP plans and, you know, he knows her public sector very well, but the CSA sector has its own challenges. So, what kind of performance issues do you have to look out for when you look at RCSH project?

Well, of course,

solar thermal technology, any type of technology, of course you have any issues you have to tackle every day in order to make sure the plans work perfectly, and these type of technologies are not are not a standalone, you have to take care, take care of them, because this is a project that generate cold water so you will have brought problems we did bye Been that you have some in in instructions inside the bite. So, you have to clean pipes every certain time It depends on the quality of the words who So, you have to take care of what type of water go inside collectors to prevent that also

also one of the main

problems for this this type of technology are they overheating. So, you need to have different type of equipment that prevents overheating, why not four main advantage of or brother is that if you want to, to stop taking solar radiation you can take you collect to do collector out of the Focus so or collector have like caramel like a producer sensor a thermometer that if the temperature is above a certain certain temperature collector will go out of the focus. So, these type of features you have to do have in order to prevent like male failures in the in the system

Thank you Angela for your answer very comprehensive Pedro I don’t know if in your experiences researchers you have come across any particular snacks that you have to look at to make sure that the operation of these systems is optimal.

Any solid cannot really understand the part of your question fire me Yeah, the question

is just going back to the question we can heal about the main operational issues that you might find. So, what are there any aspects that you would recommend looking out for in terms of the ensuring the optimal of operation of us as age 16

definitely, filing dusting of the collectors is one issue. So, depending on the site,

we might need to take a look to the

the aspect of the mirrors because of course when as the mirror start to get soiled, the performed optical performance of the system will become is one aspect. It’s not a very complicated one. Another important question is to look into all the control system especially direct engineer Operation systems, of course, it’s important to ensure that the system is being operated in such a condition that assures good quality that the system

on the other hand,

I would say normal maintenance of

all

every six months will be

recommended. But on that regard, I don’t see

larger requirements that don’t do it for important. So, I would say that in terms of maintenance and operation, the solar system so besides the control, which is very specific, especially if we are considering concentrating solar, besides that, I would say the maintenance required for a solar system does not differ too much

complexity.

Okay, makes makes it all sense, you know, they would be quite a well known and relatively straightforward seats them to do my pain is a question here and the importance of solar resources on bankability. So, the question reads, how important is equality of DNA data for CSH projects? In terms of bankability? Is it needed as a measurement campaign ID? So what would you do in these cases? And how do you spend some time measuring the right solar radiation?

up we’ll know for the we’re testing for these type of projects that are not so big. We are based on on available data. We can base or calculations from available tables of radio stations. I don’t know from nessa or Different types or sources, there is some part of Mexico or countries that also have nationals, measurements of of religions available. So, we work with these with these data and so, sometimes we do some Prevention’s or we are sometimes conservative with that that as well, in order to make sure that the performance of the project will work as we as we want or we designed, but for bankability, as these type of projects are also not so big, almost all projects are not so big in capital most of banks or finance used to do and they look more for their sometimes not look a lot on these type of technical information in order to approve Finance there look more for the finance numbers of the company, if numbers are good in the company, if there can be to them a finance is more about that is more about the company financial situation in order to approve a finance

okay. There is a question here moving on more into the regulate regulatory aspect. Do you think that they there is a role for government or other institutions in

in promoting these technology?

Is there another companies

is there is there a role that governments or other Well, institutions could play in furthering the use of concentrating solar heat.

Well, yeah, MIT Mexico, there’s, there’s some governmental institutions that want to promote these type of technology. They are they reverse some market reports, see the potential of these technology on the market and how this technology can help to reduce you to emissions, but just that couple years ago, there was or energy reform here in country. In almost in in all who have these documents, they don’t mention even though even one time they they the word heat. So for government ER Okay, they’re looking to promote some Market Report, but there are not any type of policy to develop this market in Mexico. So, I think so for for now. It has to we have to work more we the market conditions of fossil fuel prices, and how we can reduce the price of our projects in order to companies be more interested in investing in this type of technology.

Maybe I could add to that.

That working, maybe it goes the national coming from working with recommendations to public policies. It is true that generally speaking when people talk about the Energy what comes to their mind is a is a light is electricity and there is very often confusion between electricity and energy which is even in both documents, which is not very prone to to make it clear the importance of processes for you to have an idea worldwide in terms of final energy consumption processes, transform war, final energy consumption then the world electricity markets. So, in terms of potential impacts regarding decarbonisation, for instance, definitely something to be considered. And I would say, in some countries more than, you know others, it becomes clear that the decolonization of industrial sector needs to go through the decolonization of industry in general, in general, two thirds of the energy consumption is with only one foot to the trees. So definitely something we need to take a look at. So I believe that the different countries, which are today developing decarbonisation strategies, that’s the case in Portugal, but also the case in Mexico for me. There are targets to achieve in terms of emission reductions, these targets can be said, for different sectors, so isolating industry as well. But then when it comes to specific measures, to decarbonize sectors, that’s when it becomes sometimes a bit more tricky to make it visible, the potential impact of solar processes. So I guess it’s not an easy task, but definitely it’s important that the general public because aware of the potential of these technologies and now they can solve the decarbonisation challenges faced by industry.

Thank you very much, Pedro and for for your answers. I think we have time for one more question. And I’d like to do say, you know, we have been mostly talking about challenges, but I think that in relative terms that say that Mexico east, we could say he’s a success story, there have been, you know, more than 70 projects in Mexico, which is more than a most other countries. So, you know, in, in your opinion on what has Why do you think that this is a KYR? What have been the main factors that have driven the adoption of solar heat systems in Mexico?

Yeah, well, of course, one of the main reasons are 14 few will be One is firstly fuels prices. Mexico is not very it has not developed yet all the pipelines to to deliver natural gas to most of the areas of the country so there’s a lot of places in Mexico that they have to use diesel or LPG gas. So of course these type of companies are our main targets here in Mexico on also will we we develop a technology that are very competitive with these in the markets or prices we try to do to do projects that are with the best cost benefit. We do so or baby with a baby Very interesting for companies and makes that we their savings, they can pay for a finance or a leasing. So that was were challenged that if they get a five year lease and they can pay the leasing with the savings, so we almost in our projects tried to do this match. And so we try to convince clients that if they do the project or they don’t do the project, they will remain paying the same amount of money month in a monthly basis. So is like it sometimes you you can, you can feel that it’s a no brainer decisions, but it’s not that easy as it sounds. You need to have a lot of confidence with clients.

It’s very

Challenges challenging because if you group if you go to a factory and you talk with the owner of the company they 95% of these owners, they don’t know that they can produce his team or for heat wave with the sun. So you have to educate first the client and then convinced that that technology is working already already in another facility. Sometimes you take the clients to beaches and other clients facility and then you propose a very good finance technical proposal in order to close close a deal. Also, these kids rate radio so you have to see how you hit rate and if and if you have a heat rate of I don’t know 10% of heat rate, so you We have to be to think companies in order to close one deal. So many companies don’t look for this type of market or market Nina statistics. So you have to do a lot of work daily and you have to have always a lot of prospects open in order to close one deal. So we work on that every day.

So just to the glaze, really, what would you tell very quickly, a potential? Well, I mean, that’s really good. So who might be watching us now who is hesitant to driving systems to get them interested in in the technology?

I think so. I will tell to them that there’s a lot of business cases now that companies that are working we are very, very happy to have a big team of Of these companies take them to see our current installation, how it works. And we have everything prepared to that the clients have the confidence to install this type of technology. Also, like in our contract, we have like a heat in the like insurance that we not just sales brother, we, we sell the performance of our project. So if we don’t deliver the performance, then we have to invest more on our own costs in order to get to these performance. So this type of contract is is good for clients to have the confidence to do these type install these type of technologies.

Very good. Thank you very much. Hang on so well, you know, it’s time to it’s been great to have both of you today like to thank the members of the audience well for sticking with us for the full hour. So we’re any final words for the audience Metro.

Well, thank you for interest and also we will take a better look into the possibilities of these technologies for industrial applications.

Thank you, Patrick, and have any parting words.

Thank you very much for everyone. You can look on our website for more information and available on my email also for further information that you want to have from our projects or technology. We are open to Doug and also any type of companies that want to promote this type of technology. Promote or or project or products, you can also send me an email and I can send you also information.

Thank you and And finally, I’d like to thank the main at the World Bank manner CSP program for making these webinar possible. And I’d like to remind you that we have a another webinar coming up on concentrated solar heat, which is called breaking industrial solar heat to market. And you can find it in the chat box. So it’s just there now, and well without further ado relating but it’s time to close a webinar. Thank you very much, all of you for being here and see you here next time.